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When functional languages can be accepted by industry?
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Date: -- (:)
From: John Max Skaller <skaller@m...>
Subject: Re: When functional languages can be accepted by industry?
Brian Rogoff wrote:
> >       It is faster than C though, and much easier to use.
> 
> Faster than C? I doubt that. Where is your evidence?

	C++ supports several optimisations not possible in C89:
inline functions, and object orientation important amoung them.
Inline has been added to C9X. This was not gratuitously, but for a
reason :-)
.. there's no doubt C++ is faster than C89. 
How much depends on the compiler of course, but what the compiler is
able to do also depends on the language being implemented :-))

[Why C++ is popular]

> I'd say simply because it is perceived as a better C, and C was already
> the language of choice for most applications.

	Yes. This is a large part of the appeal. And a valid one.
The C++ committee worked hard to minimise any loss of compatibility
or performance.

	C++ is a compromise. It is a compromise involving theory,
industry, and politics. A large part of it's success must be attributed
to an unashamed requirement to appeal to the market.
 
> OCaml is not riding anyone's coattails, so it really has to be better at
> something, 

	Oh: it is. No doubt of it. It is unequivocably better at
symbol manipulation, compiler development, and managing abstraction.

	Let's put it this way: my Python interpreter Vyper, written in ocaml,
is 
_currently_ 10 times slower than CPython. But I am working
(slowly) on improving the technology, and I can do that much
better in ocaml than C. I guess it is possible to make it _faster_ than
CPython
eventually. Quite apart from being a better language (supporting
functional
style nested scopes, an algebraic matching construction, and a few other
interesting things). This stuff is likely to outperform the equivalent
Python
if used for suitable problems.

	What it lacks most isn't performance, but a way of separately
compiling and linking native library modules (to be loaded dynamically).
CPython can do this. It is an important strength.

> or, more likely, we have to create a niche in which OCaml is
> the best language (read "The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing ;-). I think
> that writing compilers and associated tools is one such niche, since it
> plays off of MLs strengths.

	Yes. And it would gain many more users if some of the
industrial weaknesses were addressed. Such as being able to generate
dynamically linkable shared libraries, have the compiler find an order
for linking modules from a given set ... Note I'm not complaining here:
these things require resources .. typically lacking from the environment
in which the ocaml developers work :-(

-- 
John (Max) Skaller, mailto:skaller@maxtal.com.au
10/1 Toxteth Rd Glebe NSW 2037 Australia voice: 61-2-9660-0850
checkout Vyper http://Vyper.sourceforge.net
download Interscript http://Interscript.sourceforge.net