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Re: [Caml-list] Future of labels
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Date: -- (:)
From: Jacques Garrigue <garrigue@k...>
Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Future of labels, and ideas for library labelling
OK, now I have three answers calling for a more radical shift
toward labels :-)

Of course labels are the Right Way (yet, I don't care about trade marks).
Otherwise I wouldn't have suggested to introduce them in ocaml
in the first place.
Here is again a long explanation.


When labels were first introduced in Olabl, about 5 years ago, I did
not realize it fully: this was just an experiment in how many labels
you can put in a library, and how it feels to use. But then using it
myself, and having students use it, I came to realize that
_compulsory_ labels are really the way to go.  Of course optional
arguments are very nice for libraries, as everybody seems to agree,
but compulsory labels on non optional arguments are the real thing,
which change the programming experience (to speak Self'ish).
Commutation also matters, but again it is secondary to the fact that
all uses of a function will be coherently labeled. (By the way all
this discussion about labels being hard to understand to beginners is
of course trash. They clearly make understanding easier. But they may
make the teacher's work harder :-))

After various attempts at labelling, the conclusion was that you
should put as many labels as possible, with at most one non-labeled
argument per function, and very often none at all.
(By this standard the current labelling of the standard library is
just broken.)

Why such a frenzy of labels ? Nothing so surprising: natural language
is full of grammatical redundancies. You don't ask why you should put
an article before a name, or why a verb works with a particular
preposition. That's all defined, and it helps understanding each other.
Many people believe that since functional programming languages have a
mathematical basis, they should look like mathematical formulae, but
this is plain wrong: they should be redundant enough so that you
understand them as you understand a math course. You would be surprised
if the professor never reminded you of the meaning of a theorem when
using it, just because it was proved once!


So (compulsory) labels are the way to go. But what are labels in
ocaml? Most people just consider them as an extension, like objects
are. There are no objects used in the bytecode compiler, so there
should be no labels there, and as a result no (compulsory) labels in
the standard library.
Considering the history of Caml, this seems hard to refute.
The only new feature that made its way to the core is modules, and
the name changed from caml-light to caml special light then.
So if labels are to have the same role, people would expect a change
in the name of the language itself. I'm not sure this is really what
is needed now. (Wolfram talked about the freedom to stay with an older
version: this is exactly what happened for the many people who went on
using caml-light until recently)

Another example is Haskell: type classes became the main feature of
this language, so omnipresent that even the map function is
overloaded. A lot of comfort was gained, but the simplicity of the
core language was lost.


That was basically the dillemma when merging olabl into ocaml: olabl
was a different language, and I cannot see how all ocaml users could
suddenly be convinced to switch to olabl.
That's why I'm trying to make proposals that do not touch too directly
the core of the language. Just to make it easy to everybody.
I'm not sure I'm sacrificing the right way. What was the right way for
olabl is not necessarily the right way for ocaml. Yet, I would not
like to see labels limited to a small set of libraries, like LablTk
and LablGTK.


Also, these reactions surprised me a bit. I can very well see why
Wolfram pushes labels: he has as much experience as me in them, and
knows where they help. But Judicael and Markus had just said that they
were not using label mode. They may convince people much better if
they come back next week after having converted a few programs to
labels mode :-) Seriously, what labels lack currently is serious
users. (Well, there are some in Japan, but they are not very
outspoken).

Best regards,

Jacques Garrigue
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