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Date: -- (:)
From: Alexander Epifanov <epifanov@k...>
Subject: Re: [Caml-list] ocaml killer
On 18:26 Wed 28 Jan     , Chet Murthy wrote:

I agree with you on all items.
I've written a lot of java applications. "Java - slow sux" - it's right.
I don't think the JVM is a good solution. I told about scala, which used JVM,
but I don't want to tell "We need to use JVM".

The basic problem in projects in which I took part, was that I could not use
ocaml _only_ to make project complete. I wrote a lot of C/C++ functions to use
ocaml with CORBA or SNMP for example.
> 
> Alexander,
> 
> I don't know what to say, except that clearly, you should spend some
> time in the trenches, working with the COBOL of the 21st Century --
> Java.
> 
> That's what I do for a living.  I've written extremely complex Java
> systems.  I've debugged more Java code than anybody else at my current
> employer, and I'm not kidding.
> 
> And, y'know what?
> 
> Java/the JVM still sux.
> 
> I left CAML in 1994, when it still didn't have a native-code
> compiler.  I started hacking on Java in the spring of 1996.  I've got
> code in (probably) every JVM.  I've debugged dozens of very large, and
> hundreds of only somewhat large Java deployments, some of them in
> situations involving large amounts of business at risk.
> 
> And y'know what?
> 
> Java/the JVM still sux.
> 
> "concurrency"!  You ever tried to use Java threads to do anything
> meaningful?  Check out the J2EE spec.  It basically is BUILT around
> NOT sharing anything between threads.
> 
> Oh, and y'know, we have a joke: "every Java bug is a connection-pool
> (or resource-pool) bug".
> 
> Here's another: "When you arrive onsite,  grep for synchronized, and
> if you see it, put your laptop back in your bag, tell 'em you're going
> to get coffee, and don't come back".
> 
> Java/the JVM is not a systems-programming language.  Period.  Oh, and
> I'll defend that against all comers.  Difference is, though, if you
> wanna attack, I'll expect real examples, not the academic crap that
> most programming language theorists throw around.
> 
> --chet--
> 
> P.S.  I came back to CAML for personal programming in 1999, and after
> that four-year hiatus, during which I became a commercial JVM
> internals guy, as well as a commercial transaction-processing
> firefighter (think "Mr. Wolf" from _Pulp Fiction_).  So I think I have
> the experience to compare, and the verdict seems manifestly
> incontrovertible: Java/the JVM sux.
> 
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