environment idiom
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Date:   (:) 
From:  Thomas Fischbacher <Thomas.Fischbacher@P...> 
Subject:  Re: [Camllist] environment idiom 
> On Mon, 20041213 at 21:20, Thomas Fischbacher wrote: > > > > Referential transparency is about the substitution of definitions. > > Evidently, x < ... is _not_ a definition. > > But this is a bit circular. It is suspect to use the Haskell > definition of 'definition' and then say Haskell is referentially > transparent, a property depending on the definition of 'definition', > because you cannot apply that definition to any other language. Haskell differs from other languages in the one important point that Haskell definitions have all the properties of what a mathematician would call a definition (maybe mod typeclass subtleties). And this is what referential transparency is about: is the notion of "definition" that a programming language gives you just the same as that in mathematics or not? > C also has 'definitions' but they're not at all the same > as Haskell ones. Precisely. And they do not behave like mathematical definitions, so C is not reftransparent. > So when you're looking at monadic Haskell that contains > > x < ... > > you can claim it isn't a definition.. but it surely > looks like one.. more precisely it looks like an assignment. Well, the C statement x=x+1; may also look like an equation to the uninitiated, but everyone would perhaps agree with me that this is just a misinterpretation of symbols. > However clearly the ST monad is sometimes useful.. > can you explain when that is? Good question...  regards, tf@cip.physik.unimuenchen.de (o_ Thomas Fischbacher  http://www.cip.physik.unimuenchen.de/~tf //\ (lambda (n) ((lambda (p q r) (p p q r)) (lambda (g x y) V_/_ (if (= x 0) y (g g ( x 1) (* x y)))) n 1)) (Debian GNU)