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Date: -- (:)
From: Markus Mottl <markus.mottl@g...>
Subject: Re: [Caml-list] Co-existing with non OCaml threads
On 5/12/06, Ted Kremenek <kremenek@cs.stanford.edu> wrote:
> Because of the run-time lock, should I gather that the threads are
> still essentially cooperative threads?  For example, does it work
> this way: if a thread holding the master lock is switched out and the
> kernel schedules another thread, that other thread will start running
> and try and acquire the lock.  It won't be able to, so it goes back
> to sleep, and another thread will wake up, try and acquire the lock,
> goes back to sleep, and so on, until the original thread holding the
> lock is rescheduled.

No.  The other threads will block in the master lock, which is a
POSIX-mutex + condition variable.  Releasing the master lock will
signal exactly one of the blocking threads that it may run.  The
context switch, however, does not necessarily happen immediately.  It
depends on the OS when this will happen, and the scheduling policy
determines which thread is going to run.

> If so, this would lend itself to extremely poor performance: if I had
> 100 threads, 99 of them may have to wake up and go to sleep before
> the original one is scheduled.  That is 99 useless context switches.

That would be horrible, and that's not the way it works.

> Or rather is the lock acquired and released (within the generated
> native code for the OCaml part of a program, not C code) on calls to
> the memory management functions and other run-time code that are not
> thread-safe?  This is also seems slow, since the heap is actively
> manipulated all the time, so locks will constantly be acquired and
> released, and you will have the same wake-up, make little or no
> progress and go back to sleep problem I mentioned before.

A timer signal makes sure that the current thread yields once in a
while.  Thus, it is not necessary to acquire/release locks at each
allocation, which would make everything run dog slow.

> Your last email said that only one thread is allowed to run OCaml
> code at any time, so it seems to me that this mutual exclusion must
> come from somewhere.  I'm very curious to know how this is
> implemented.  I gather that most people want to use threads in OCaml
> to have multiple threads running OCaml code, and not necessarily have
> a bunch of threads executing called C code (allowing the master lock
> to be released).  I'm just trying to understand how actual
> performance would ever resemble anything desirable.

Unless INRIA implements a GC that can handle multiple threads running
in parallel, which would have its own performance tradeoffs, you'll
essentially always share one processor only.  It depends on your
application whether that's a problem.  I/O-heavy applications will do
fine, because the system calls can all be performed in parallel.  You
can also always call C or Fortran to run in parallel on bigarrays
(matrices), because they don't mess with the OCaml-heap.

Regards,
Markus

-- 
Markus Mottl        http://www.ocaml.info        markus.mottl@gmail.com