<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>

<!DOCTYPE message PUBLIC
  "-//MLarc//DTD MLarc output files//EN"
  "../../mlarc.dtd"[
  <!ATTLIST message
    listname CDATA #REQUIRED
    title CDATA #REQUIRED
  >
]>

  <?xml-stylesheet href="../../mlarc.xsl" type="text/xsl"?>


<message 
  url="2002/07/1311d5475a156defb5e3448f20d85315"
  from="John Max Skaller &lt;skaller@o...&gt;"
  author="John Max Skaller"
  date="2002-07-20T17:49:11"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement"
  prev="2002/07/5cecdbd360abfdc5b5553e4a24e44dd3"
  next="2002/07/16814c22c2ab33015026d759c5d6f226"
  prev-in-thread="2002/07/fcdb1d567d28038f0795dbedc8703612"
  next-in-thread="2002/07/2ca0ce69b274daa5d62c6c200453fdc9"
  prev-thread="2002/07/c22d9fd21bcea5691f5678e925df1862"
  next-thread="2002/07/1555d185cf3a3a8758041c92a7f7d521"
  root="../../"
  period="month"
  listname="caml-list"
  title="Archives of the Caml mailing list">

<thread subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement">
<msg 
  url="2002/07/315f6c499a501e6f0b02d1bddacd4ee1"
  from="Oleg &lt;oleg_inconnu@m...&gt;"
  author="Oleg"
  date="2002-07-18T23:13:10"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement">
<msg 
  url="2002/07/4675668fddffa94f558110a6a47fcea6"
  from="William Lovas &lt;wlovas@s...&gt;"
  author="William Lovas"
  date="2002-07-18T23:54:10"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement">
<msg 
  url="2002/07/4890279c2ad66748afc7cb554cf02ebe"
  from="Oleg &lt;oleg_inconnu@m...&gt;"
  author="Oleg"
  date="2002-07-19T03:58:12"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement">
<msg 
  url="2002/07/cdd23bf04bb19a6191ed787cbb39b10b"
  from="Oleg &lt;oleg_inconnu@m...&gt;"
  author="Oleg"
  date="2002-07-19T08:21:49"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement">
<msg 
  url="2002/07/0a22394ba16e1be19dbc11a844233536"
  from="Andreas Rossberg &lt;rossberg@p...&gt;"
  author="Andreas Rossberg"
  date="2002-07-19T08:50:40"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement">
<msg 
  url="2002/07/5830232e60808a2a2d12b2619015af15"
  from="Alessandro Baretta &lt;alex@b...&gt;"
  author="Alessandro Baretta"
  date="2002-07-19T10:06:47"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement">
<msg 
  url="2002/07/c0f52395e551fc67daf00d3613dcd063"
  from="John Max Skaller &lt;skaller@o...&gt;"
  author="John Max Skaller"
  date="2002-07-19T18:15:49"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement">
<msg 
  url="2002/07/b61fd235edd5b365489366fade93ada5"
  from="Brian Smith &lt;brian-l-smith@u...&gt;"
  author="Brian Smith"
  date="2002-07-19T18:33:21"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement">
<msg 
  url="2002/07/5cecdbd360abfdc5b5553e4a24e44dd3"
  from="John Max Skaller &lt;skaller@o...&gt;"
  author="John Max Skaller"
  date="2002-07-20T17:30:44"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement">
</msg>
</msg>
<msg 
  url="2002/07/fcdb1d567d28038f0795dbedc8703612"
  from="Alessandro Baretta &lt;alex@b...&gt;"
  author="Alessandro Baretta"
  date="2002-07-19T18:59:30"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement">
<msg 
  url="2002/07/1311d5475a156defb5e3448f20d85315"
  from="John Max Skaller &lt;skaller@o...&gt;"
  author="John Max Skaller"
  date="2002-07-20T17:49:11"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement">
</msg>
</msg>
</msg>
</msg>
<msg 
  url="2002/07/2ca0ce69b274daa5d62c6c200453fdc9"
  from="Oleg &lt;oleg_inconnu@m...&gt;"
  author="Oleg"
  date="2002-07-19T10:37:27"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement">
<msg 
  url="2002/07/d0f044211e2146d5acbb23e7a5bfbd75"
  from="Andreas Rossberg &lt;rossberg@p...&gt;"
  author="Andreas Rossberg"
  date="2002-07-19T17:19:07"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement">
<msg 
  url="2002/07/e526f6886b6068d87015ec9c87602b52"
  from="John Max Skaller &lt;skaller@o...&gt;"
  author="John Max Skaller"
  date="2002-07-20T16:58:22"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement">
</msg>
</msg>
</msg>
</msg>
</msg>
</msg>
<msg 
  url="2002/07/aa90e8987502a2062bb4131d5b0d2901"
  from="Brian Rogoff &lt;bpr@a...&gt;"
  author="Brian Rogoff"
  date="2002-07-19T16:35:12"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement">
<msg 
  url="2002/10/9a655e0da7b32273cb71f8cc5fe7c8c6"
  from="Eray Ozkural &lt;erayo@c...&gt;"
  author="Eray Ozkural"
  date="2002-10-17T08:32:49"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement">
</msg>
</msg>
</msg>
<msg 
  url="2002/07/4e7fd140d3b4edee8e9e2f6acc9fd1eb"
  from="Alessandro Baretta &lt;alex@b...&gt;"
  author="Alessandro Baretta"
  date="2002-07-19T01:18:46"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement">
<msg 
  url="2002/07/fe3c7bd3d243f1f7b4c2eed75e44d456"
  from="Oleg &lt;oleg_inconnu@m...&gt;"
  author="Oleg"
  date="2002-07-19T04:03:10"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement">
<msg 
  url="2002/07/61090af523bf875fc4ebc1a4a14c8ce7"
  from="Alessandro Baretta &lt;alex@b...&gt;"
  author="Alessandro Baretta"
  date="2002-07-19T15:39:39"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] Rule based language [was: productivity improvement]">
<msg 
  url="2002/07/ffda4354af9f91affee591b990f23ce1"
  from="Julie Farago &lt;farago@e...&gt;"
  author="Julie Farago"
  date="2002-07-19T17:20:45"
  subject="[Caml-list] compact.c">
</msg>
</msg>
</msg>
<msg 
  url="2002/10/2673b6a958e12595d4f377eb23300fde"
  from="Eray Ozkural &lt;erayo@c...&gt;"
  author="Eray Ozkural"
  date="2002-10-15T11:00:27"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement">
<msg 
  url="2002/10/10506201acc84b3fca638f4cce55748f"
  from="Oleg &lt;oleg_inconnu@m...&gt;"
  author="Oleg"
  date="2002-10-15T12:34:11"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement">
<msg 
  url="2002/10/227d76b8e3291647b70e216a84ed1050"
  from="Eray Ozkural &lt;erayo@c...&gt;"
  author="Eray Ozkural"
  date="2002-10-15T17:11:16"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement">
</msg>
</msg>
</msg>
</msg>
<msg 
  url="2002/07/4ea471c9b5dc5d496a40fb34a60d9f00"
  from="Emmanuel Renieris &lt;er@c...&gt;"
  author="Emmanuel Renieris"
  date="2002-07-19T04:42:09"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement">
<msg 
  url="2002/07/bafcc930158b1e4ef9cf8990deef2a44"
  from="Oleg &lt;oleg_inconnu@m...&gt;"
  author="Oleg"
  date="2002-07-19T09:56:48"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement">
<msg 
  url="2002/07/ac004f0bf1e2757debd128f2def8ef91"
  from="Alessandro Baretta &lt;alex@b...&gt;"
  author="Alessandro Baretta"
  date="2002-07-19T10:36:32"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement">
<msg 
  url="2002/07/d268d6d85acf33a994f988ac968b22bc"
  from="Daniel de Rauglaudre &lt;daniel.de_rauglaudre@i...&gt;"
  author="Daniel de Rauglaudre"
  date="2002-07-19T10:52:32"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement">
<msg 
  url="2002/07/2c53d122c8500845192452834a5d8d93"
  from="Alessandro Baretta &lt;alex@b...&gt;"
  author="Alessandro Baretta"
  date="2002-07-19T11:29:39"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement">
</msg>
</msg>
</msg>
<msg 
  url="2002/07/12e8fc3009383004d83e8e746bc02072"
  from="Xavier Leroy &lt;xavier.leroy@i...&gt;"
  author="Xavier Leroy"
  date="2002-07-19T11:11:20"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement">
<msg 
  url="2002/10/162c10804d9252dab346d1f6647961a3"
  from="Eray Ozkural &lt;erayo@c...&gt;"
  author="Eray Ozkural"
  date="2002-10-15T11:00:20"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement">
<msg 
  url="2002/10/32721a368455f27fc6b2ac163ff47e35"
  from="Pal-Kristian Engstad &lt;engstad@n...&gt;"
  author="Pal-Kristian Engstad"
  date="2002-10-15T18:47:16"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement">
<msg 
  url="2002/10/3b927989eeb00f13d1a3a08adb0b5a6d"
  from="Eray Ozkural &lt;erayo@c...&gt;"
  author="Eray Ozkural"
  date="2002-10-17T08:38:01"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement">
<msg 
  url="2002/10/d0b38de16b1d88ea930f2525d7d74e4f"
  from="Diego Olivier Fernandez Pons &lt;Diego-Olivier.FERNANDEZ-PONS@c...&gt;"
  author="Diego Olivier Fernandez Pons"
  date="2002-10-17T09:37:54"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement">
<msg 
  url="2002/10/1e715e1544ec6426c6727ba80f862674"
  from="Jeffrey Palmer &lt;jeffrey.palmer@a...&gt;"
  author="Jeffrey Palmer"
  date="2002-10-17T15:55:10"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement">
<msg 
  url="2002/10/71058b239015be081d7e541a46413fdb"
  from="brogoff@s..."
  author="brogoff@s..."
  date="2002-10-17T16:15:12"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement">
</msg>
<msg 
  url="2002/10/69ccda807609447f6e2af2b2ea80fffe"
  from="Christophe TROESTLER &lt;debian00@t...&gt;"
  author="Christophe TROESTLER"
  date="2002-10-17T18:18:35"
  subject="[Caml-list] Re: Camlp4 optimizations (was: productivity improvement)">
<msg 
  url="2002/10/b3805138b0c1ce941e882eacd4fc29f4"
  from="Chris Hecker &lt;checker@d...&gt;"
  author="Chris Hecker"
  date="2002-10-17T18:32:17"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] Re: Camlp4 optimizations (was: productivity improvement)">
<msg 
  url="2002/10/66d9636fac47bb0d8d0c660b7a7c7248"
  from="Shivkumar Chandrasekaran &lt;shiv@e...&gt;"
  author="Shivkumar Chandrasekaran"
  date="2002-10-17T19:07:17"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] Re: Camlp4 optimizations (was: productivity improvement)">
<msg 
  url="2002/10/d7aa0ce05030395f08a19034ab71f870"
  from="Chris Hecker &lt;checker@d...&gt;"
  author="Chris Hecker"
  date="2002-10-17T20:01:33"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] Re: Camlp4 optimizations (was: productivity improvement)">
</msg>
</msg>
<msg 
  url="2002/10/806efec1e799f5e5422d49df924ab818"
  from="Daniel de Rauglaudre &lt;daniel.de_rauglaudre@i...&gt;"
  author="Daniel de Rauglaudre"
  date="2002-10-17T19:36:46"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] Re: Camlp4 optimizations (was: productivity improvement)">
</msg>
<msg 
  url="2002/10/a4392f89c82205d6aa4773c0c0f70926"
  from="Brian Hurt &lt;brian.hurt@q...&gt;"
  author="Brian Hurt"
  date="2002-10-17T19:53:39"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] Re: Camlp4 optimizations (was: productivity  improvement)">
<msg 
  url="2002/10/ddd8ec5b5184177f3e93a81c4b28d0a2"
  from="Chris Hecker &lt;checker@d...&gt;"
  author="Chris Hecker"
  date="2002-10-17T20:22:37"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] Re: Camlp4 optimizations (was: productivity  improvement)">
<msg 
  url="2002/10/59fce5d6bf17d1c6e156ae7dd6ec2538"
  from="Brian Hurt &lt;brian.hurt@q...&gt;"
  author="Brian Hurt"
  date="2002-10-17T21:14:20"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] Re: Camlp4 optimizations (was: productivity   improvement)">
<msg 
  url="2002/10/3eec5b83b44876bb4b82e66661e3b3fc"
  from="Jeffrey Palmer &lt;jeffrey.palmer@a...&gt;"
  author="Jeffrey Palmer"
  date="2002-10-17T21:37:32"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] Re: Camlp4 optimizations (was: productivity   improvement)">
<msg 
  url="2002/10/6491c619e07668fd8cdd02bdbdae9256"
  from="Alessandro Baretta &lt;alex@b...&gt;"
  author="Alessandro Baretta"
  date="2002-10-17T23:45:08"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] Re: Camlp4 optimizations (was: productivity   improvement)">
<msg 
  url="2002/10/c0bd2ffc4c8328c165b20226be4c5c76"
  from="Jeffrey Palmer &lt;jeffrey.palmer@a...&gt;"
  author="Jeffrey Palmer"
  date="2002-10-18T00:57:51"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] Re: Camlp4 optimizations (was: productivity   improvement)">
<msg 
  url="2002/10/c266d8e7c314cdea2d0a086091f77b21"
  from="Alessandro Baretta &lt;alex@b...&gt;"
  author="Alessandro Baretta"
  date="2002-10-18T04:11:03"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] Re: Camlp4 optimizations (was: productivity   improvement)">
<msg 
  url="2002/10/f1b9af8d9099b116f83eb5d9c6c6db10"
  from="Remi VANICAT &lt;vanicat@l...&gt;"
  author="Remi VANICAT"
  date="2002-10-18T08:23:29"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] Re: Camlp4 optimizations (was: productivity   improvement)">
<msg 
  url="2002/10/a221071f0765da003963569e48fed7e2"
  from="Sven Luther &lt;luther@d...&gt;"
  author="Sven Luther"
  date="2002-10-18T08:46:51"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] Re: Camlp4 optimizations (was: productivity improvement)">
</msg>
</msg>
</msg>
</msg>
</msg>
<msg 
  url="2002/10/2585e980ce3edfe7f38579edd7631029"
  from="Brian Hurt &lt;brian.hurt@q...&gt;"
  author="Brian Hurt"
  date="2002-10-18T01:41:36"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] Re: Camlp4 optimizations (was: productivity   improvement)">
</msg>
</msg>
<msg 
  url="2002/10/2e244c3c0a6a92d79ba5a6d70d723f4b"
  from="Chris Hecker &lt;checker@d...&gt;"
  author="Chris Hecker"
  date="2002-10-18T08:29:38"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] Re: Camlp4 optimizations (was: productivity   improvement)">
<msg 
  url="2002/10/33dd1413d1a28faa17e2ee72c0a8ef0d"
  from="brogoff@s..."
  author="brogoff@s..."
  date="2002-10-18T23:55:57"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] Re: Camlp4 optimizations (was: productivity    improvement)">
</msg>
</msg>
</msg>
</msg>
</msg>
</msg>
</msg>
<msg 
  url="2002/10/7ce12a7a2b633b8a4d7b7762f30c116a"
  from="Diego Olivier Fernandez Pons &lt;Diego-Olivier.FERNANDEZ-PONS@c...&gt;"
  author="Diego Olivier Fernandez Pons"
  date="2002-10-18T10:45:30"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement">
</msg>
<msg 
  url="2002/10/dd0c7f80fedaa74938f2ed0a6aaa952e"
  from="Francois Pottier &lt;francois.pottier@i...&gt;"
  author="Francois Pottier"
  date="2002-10-21T08:57:04"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement">
</msg>
</msg>
</msg>
</msg>
</msg>
</msg>
</msg>
</msg>
</msg>
<msg 
  url="2002/07/cfac32c08aafecbb2414ee0832350833"
  from="Brian Smith &lt;blsmith@b...&gt;"
  author="Brian Smith"
  date="2002-07-20T14:28:01"
  subject="Re: [Caml-list] productivity improvement">
</msg>
</msg>
</thread>

<contents>
Alessandro Baretta wrote:

&gt;
&gt;&gt;    struct X { virtual bool binop(X const&amp;)const=0; };
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Tell me if I got this straight: OO polymorphism requires that 
&gt; inheriting classes wishing to override methods of parents must use 
&gt; covariant return types and contravariant parameter types, so as to 
&gt; guarantee that inheritance implies subtyping. In this case, it would 
&gt; be meaning less to implement interface X because, applying the 
&gt; contravariance principle to the formal parameter of binop, you'd end 
&gt; up with a class whose binop will accept as rhs parameters any instance 
&gt; of any subtype of X. Therefore a class Integer will have a 
&gt; greater_than_binop accepting instances of class Rational, Real, 
&gt; Complex, Quaternion ... This is meaningless, of course, so we conclude 
&gt; that establishing an identity between inheritance and subtyping 
&gt; relations is paradoxical. Correct? 


The problem is that for arbitrary implementations of the abstractionX,
you clearly cannot encode the primitive binop without knowing
the representation of 'this' and the argument. This is a precise
assertion compared to saying it is 'meaningless': often there
is a good meaning (sure you can add Rationals and quaternions .. :-)

Note that the assertion is not a theorem: it is an *assumption*.
So it cannot be questioned.

&gt;
&gt;
&gt;&gt; In commerical applications, almost ALL data is relational,
&gt;&gt; and so cannot be abstracted. The OO paradigm is not just
&gt;&gt; useless here, but downright destructive.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; Slow... What? I don't follow you here. 


A relational database is just an encoding of
functions like

    'a ~b'

by making a table of a and b columns.
But ~ is a binary operator.


-- 
John Max Skaller, mailto:skaller@ozemail.com.au
snail:10/1 Toxteth Rd, Glebe, NSW 2037, Australia.
voice:61-2-9660-0850




-------------------
To unsubscribe, mail caml-list-request@inria.fr Archives: http://caml.inria.fr
Bug reports: http://caml.inria.fr/bin/caml-bugs FAQ: http://caml.inria.fr/FAQ/
Beginner's list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ocaml_beginners

</contents>

</message>

